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Author Topic: Christian? Gun owner? Read this!  (Read 7007 times)
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bkt
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« on: August 16, 2012, 01:12:40 PM »

Christianity & gun owners in the crosshairs: Chilling tactic exposed]/u]
Doug Hagmann
Thursday, August 16, 2012

If you are an outspoken Christian in America, you need to be concerned. If you are an outspoken Christian in America who happens to be a gun owner, you need to be very concerned.  And if you are a Christian gun owner who disagrees with the Progressive anti-Christian agenda in America and have a platform to inform others, you better believe that you are under intense scrutiny. Sound like paranoid propaganda? Read on.

It’s one thing to say that there is a war against Christianity and an active agenda to disarm Americans, but it’s another thing altogether to watch it unfold, up close and personal.  And yet another to actually document an insidious but effective tactic that is presently being used to silence and disarm Christians right here in America. In this report, I will expose a new tactic being used by the atheistic communist supporters of the Obama regime to silence Christian critics and to disarm them at the same time.

I might have never known about this had it not been for our nightly radio program, the Hagmann & Hagmann Report. In fact, our show played a minor role in the events that transpired. Jason Ergoff, a 28-year old web designer and graphics artist from Scranton, Pennsylvania, called in to our show last week to comment on current events, including how Christianity seems to be under attack in America and across the globe. From the statements made by the CEO of Chick Fil-A regarding traditional families as defined by the Bible to the resurgence of attacks on Christians across the Middle East as a result of the “Arab Spring,” we conversed about how Christians are in the crosshairs now more than any other time in recent history. We talked about Barack Hussein Obama’s role in what seems to be overt antagonism toward Christianity and Biblical principles. Mr. Ergoff’s input to our show was a rational and welcome discourse about the events we see unfolding.

Mr. Ergoff called our program before and has always been articulate and well informed. His call last week was equally articulate and without unnecessary emotion or hype, just like his previous calls. He made his points in a very well-reasoned, rational and non-threatening manner and said nothing with which we could disagree.

Through our dialogue that included off air correspondence, we were delighted to learn that Mr. Egroff himself is hosting his own weekly radio program called Revelation News Radio, a show that provides his analysis of current events through the prism of the Holy Bible. As he is just getting started, he did a few shows leading up his weekly slot, including a show on August 7, 2012, a day after he called our program as a guest. After his call to our program, we moved on, and our program concluded without incident. This is when events began to get very interesting, and go very wrong for Mr. Egroff.

Monitoring the watchmen

As Mr. Egroff was seated at his computer preparing to listen to our program that began at 8:00 p.m. on Wednesday, August 8, 2012, he received a telephone call from a man who identified himself as “Officer Steve” from the city of Scranton Police Department, who told Jason that he was calling just to check on him, to see if he was “alright.” Jason, who never heard of “Officer Steve,” or really understood the nature of the call, responded that he was fine and had no problems where he might need the police. He was taken off guard by the call and became uneasy, especially since the officer was elusive in providing a legitimate reason for the call.

While our broadcast was playing on Jason’s computer, he received another telephone call from a “restricted” number. It was “Officer Steve” again, although this time he was calling from the front porch of Mr. Ergoff’s house. The officer reintroduced himself, and asked Jason to turn on the porch light and step outside as he wanted to speak to him. Knowing that he had done nothing wrong, Jason complied with the officer’s request. As he stepped onto the porch, “Officer Steve” was there to meet him, accompanied by another law enforcement officer.

I should note that Jason Ergoff is not stupid or naive, and sensed that had he not complied with the officer’s request, things might have gotten ugly. “It was a matter of choosing my battles,” he told me, but he was still not quite ready for what happened next.

The officer told Jason that the Scranton Police Department received a telephone call from a “friend” living in New York City who claimed to be concerned about Jason’s mental health. This friend works as a physical therapy assistant at a large New York City hospital.  It is important to note his “friend’s” professional position is well outside of the mental health practice.

According to the officer, Jason’s friend contacted his department, and claimed that he was “worried” about him, citing his recent talk about the Bible in general, Biblical prophecy in particular, and the role of the Obama regime in the larger picture detailed by prophecy. This “friend” has been listening to Jason’s calls to The Hagmann & Hagmann Report as well as Jason’s own recently started BTR radio show.

Additionally, Jason’s friend knew that he owns a couple of guns, none that are of much monetary value or the type people intent on doing harm would possess. Despite this, his friend expressed concern that Jason could possibly use the weapons in some nefarious manner. Based on Jason’s own admission, he rarely uses the guns to target practice and has little attachment to them. During my interview with Jason, he said that he did not care if he had a gun or not, they are simply not that important to him.

“You need to come with us”

The officer told Jason that he had to go with them based on a mental health complaint that originated solely from his friend, the physical therapist assistant in New York, who claimed that he was worried for Jason’s safety. At this point, Jason was under the control of the officers, and was not permitted to be alone as he entered his house to shut things down for the trip he was about to take.

The officers took Jason to the local hospital psychiatric ward for “evaluation.” For the next 18 hours, he was subjected to some of the most humiliating searches, probes, and questions by hospital personnel. Questions included those specific to his religious faith and what he thought about the government and Obama. Questions that were structured in such a manner that regardless of the answer, they would result in portraying him as a dangerous, gun-owning Christian zealot. All as a result of Jason expressing his non-violent, well reasoned, and articulate views on our show as well as his own. All ostensibly from the concern of one “friend” from another state and well over 100 miles away.

Jason Ergoff was indeed evaluated by two medical health professionals. Despite the manner in which Mr. Ergoff was picked-up, detained, probed, prodded and interviewed (some might call it an interrogation), he remained calm and did his best to comply. He believed that the medical professionals would find him in good mental health and realize that this was all a mistake. He could then use his experience to help others.

Christianity: the medical diagnosis of psychosis

Jason was indeed released after about 20 hours of evaluation. He was given his belt and shoelaces back, and all of his personal belongings taken from him upon admission. He was released without fanfare, without apology, and without explanation. But with little additional interaction, Jason was now labeled with the medical diagnosis of “psychosis” and urged to take medication that he states he does not need and does not want. Additionally, Jason was released under the condition that he gets rid of any and all firearms he owns and report to a crisis counseling center upon discharge.

This gets a bit more interesting when Jason, who felt it best to accommodate the evaluating doctors, reported to the crisis counseling center as instructed. Mr. Ergoff furnished the handful of paperwork to the crisis center worker who spent a few minutes looking over the documents. After a lengthy pause, she looked at Jason and made the following chilling observation as if it was a matter of routine: “So, you’re here because of your religious beliefs.” As Jason tells it, this was not a question, but a statement of fact.

As a career investigator, I’ve been exposed to people with mental health issues, and interviewed many. I know that it’s easy to be fooled, and that a person might appear normal, say the correct things, but then turn out to be a complete lunatic. I’ll admit that in Jason’s case, I expected to find just that scenario. I conducted a lengthy interview with Jason, asked him some very personal questions, and demanded to see documentation related to this incident. I was not about to get fooled by Jason or anyone else. To his credit, Mr. Ergoff complied with my every request and provided me with the hospital documentation I requested.

Watching the watchers who are watching the ‘watchmen’

After spending two days of constant research and investigation into his case alone, I must report here that there is something very wrong about this case, and it’s not Jason Ergoff. Despite the diagnosis of “psychosis,” he was permitted to keep his guns, at least for now. As for his “friend” who was so worried about his welfare, I’ve got his “number.” You see, one thing I did not tell Mr. Ergoff is that I was able to learn the identity of the man who turned him in as a threat to himself and society. I’ve tracked his IP addresses and his online activity. My investigation found that this is no ordinary case of someone being concerned about a friend’s welfare, but part of a larger agenda to silence the Christian conservatives and critics of this administration. I am holding that information and documentation closely, as I feel that Jason and perhaps others might need it when they come for his guns or even him once again.

By the way, the concerned friend showed just where his concern actually lies, and it certainly does not appear to be with Jason. That was clearly illustrated in a 3:00 a.m. phone call made to Jason by his friend, where he screamed at Jason for daring to mention the incident on our program, sans names, of course.

Lest you think this is an isolated case, I have since heard from five-(5) other individuals in different parts of the U.S. that this has happened to within the last thirty-(30) days. It appears the war against freedom of opinion, freedom of speech, openly professing one’s belief in God and the right to bear arms is now sufficient to earn you a medical diagnosis of “psychosis.”

Christian gun owners of America, be forewarned.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 12:55:38 PM by TerryCSA » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2012, 11:03:04 AM »

TRICKY BASTARDS ..... this is an old socialist tactic.  If you are against the "State" you are "obviously" out of your mind!  I'd a laughed these assholes off the porch .... come back when you have a warrant, and I'll be waiting right here for ya!!

Understand everyone that when the police arrive .... they are not there to help you!!
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Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium.
Better freedom with danger than peace with slavery.

I'm willing to die to keep my guns,
Are you willing to die trying to take them!
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2012, 02:10:43 PM »

I have heard that cops don't need a warrant to arrest you, nor do you need to be engaged in anything illegal, if they suspect you of being a danger to yourself and/or others due to mental instability. If you tell a cop to scram through the door under those conditions they may feel compelled to come in anyway. Then all bets are off.

When you can be declared a mental defective for speaking out against those in government and lose your freedom and rights, we are in Stalin's USSR.
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2012, 09:31:41 PM »

I have heard that cops don't need a warrant to arrest you, nor do you need to be engaged in anything illegal, if they suspect you of being a danger to yourself and/or others due to mental instability. If you tell a cop to scram through the door under those conditions they may feel compelled to come in anyway. Then all bets are off.

When you can be declared a mental defective for speaking out against those in government and lose your freedom and rights, we are in Stalin's USSR.


I would hate to be a cop and have to come through a door after you told them you weren't going to open it up.  Of course this automatically makes you out to be paranoid schizophrenic because you refused to open the door for the nice policeman standing outside your door so he can take you away........ We live in interesting times my friends!!
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Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium.
Better freedom with danger than peace with slavery.

I'm willing to die to keep my guns,
Are you willing to die trying to take them!
qrayjack
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2012, 10:10:12 AM »

Quote
We live in interesting times my friends!!

No, we live in very dangerous times. If the identity of the scumbag who is doing this is known, he needs to get a call from an attorney.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 12:49:44 PM by TerryCSA » Logged

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Snikks
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2012, 12:57:07 PM »


  this makes me so mad i couldjust spit  I am going to arm my wheel chair with my ruger .45. the wingnuts out there need to know to not let my chair fool them in to a wron g decision

sorry about the piss poor typing i'm trying bro.....  Tongue
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 01:34:49 PM »

Don't sweat the small stuff, we hear you loud and clear. That .45 Ruger wouldn't be a SR1911 would it? I've been jumping through hoops trying to find one, but Ruger has them on allocation. #%*@^!

Keep on the mend.
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bkt
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 03:36:59 AM »

Yeah, really - the Ruger .45 is hard to find. Good work getting your hands on one!

And don't worry about your typing - it's still better than what many others can bang out on other forums. Smiley
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Snikks
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 11:28:45 AM »

um, no mine is  anold hawg leg single action 6 shooter. i am looking for a gun smith to polish down the hammer and trigger and smooth out the action.  i really like those 1911's tho. i hope to one day add one to my small collection


one more thought, to any that would consider this go to www.gotyour6.org and take a look around, i'm getting the wrist band and a t shirt, but if you have the thought of watchin a vets 6 this is something for you.
while in the hospital i had the rare privledge ofbeing a recipiant of such a treatment, all i can say is wow!!!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 05:03:11 PM by TerryCSA » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 06:43:11 PM »

Thanks for info on the gotyour6 site. Just signed up. Good to hear you doing well. Those 1911s are something, aren't they? A design miracle and elegant to boot. Over a century old and going stronger than ever. John Moses Browning was an effing genius!

You're a lucky guy Snikks. Terry's a jewel.
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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2012, 10:29:03 AM »

Outcry after military veteran detained for anti-government Facebook posts



A former Marine involuntarily detained for psychiatric evaluation for posting strident anti-government messages on Facebook has received an outpouring of support from people who say authorities are trampling on his First Amendment rights.

Brandon J. Raub, 26, has been in custody since FBI, Secret Service agents and police in Virginia's Chesterfield County questioned him Thursday evening about what they said were ominous posts talking about a coming revolution. In one message earlier this month according to authorities, Raub wrote: "Sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads."

Police -- acting under a state law that allows emergency, temporary psychiatric commitments upon the recommendation of a mental health professional -- took Raub to the John Randolph Medical Center in Hopewell. He was not charged with any crime.

A Virginia-based civil liberties group, The Rutherford Institute, dispatched one of its attorneys to the hospital to represent Raub at a hearing Monday. A judge ordered Raub detained for another month, Rutherford executive director John Whitehead said.

"For government officials to not only arrest Brandon Raub for doing nothing more than exercising his First Amendment rights but to actually force him to undergo psychological evaluations and detain him against his will goes against every constitutional principle this country was founded upon," Whitehead said.

Raub's mother, Cathleen Thomas, said by telephone that the government had overstepped its bounds.

"The bottom line is his freedom of speech has been violated," she said.

Thomas said her son, who served tours as a combat engineer in Iraq and Afghanistan, is "concerned about all the wars we've experienced" and believes the U.S. government was complicit in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. One of his Facebook posts, she said, pictured the gaping hole in the Pentagon and asked "where's the plane?"

Whitehead said he found nothing alarming in Raub's social media commentaries. "The posts I read that supposedly were of concern were libertarian-type posts I see all the time," he said.

The big concern, Whitehead said, is whether government officials are monitoring citizens' private Facebook pages and detaining people with whom they disagree.

Dee Rybiski, an FBI spokeswoman in Richmond, said there was no Facebook snooping by her agency.

"We received quite a few complaints about what were perceived as threatening posts," she said. "Given the circumstances with the things that have gone on in the country with some of these mass shootings, it would be horrible for law enforcement not to pay attention to complaints."

Whitehead said some of the posts in question were made on a closed Facebook page that Raub had recently created so he questioned whether anyone from the public would have complained about them.

"Support Brandon Raub" Facebook pages have drawn significant interest, and other Internet sites had numerous comments from people outraged by the veteran's detention.

Raub's supporters characterized the detention as an arrest, complaining he was handcuffed and whisked away in a police cruiser without being served a warrant or read his rights. But authorities say it wasn't an arrest because Raub doesn't face criminal charges.

Col. Thierry Dupuis, the county police chief, said Raub was taken into custody upon the recommendation of mental health crisis intervention workers. He said the action was taken under the state's emergency custody statute, which allows a magistrate to order the civil detention and psychiatric evaluation of a person who is considered potentially dangerous.

He said Raub was handcuffed because he resisted officers' attempts to take him into custody.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/20/outcry-after-military-veteran-detained-for-anti-government-facebook-posts/#ixzz24C9CZSqu
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2012, 04:49:54 PM »

While we only have one side of this particular story, it doesn't seem good. If the guy made threats against specific individuals or buildings or whatever, that's one thing. If he talked in generalizations, much as any forum-goer on a political forum does, then what happened was wrong.

Quote
Police -- acting under a state law that allows emergency, temporary psychiatric commitments upon the recommendation of a mental health professional -- took Raub to the John Randolph Medical Center in Hopewell. He was not charged with any crime.
And that part bothers me the most. Some obscure "mental health professional" cries witch and it's up to you to prove you're OK? He was taken from his home, in cuffs, to a hospital for a psych eval and held there for days. How is that not incarceration? He wasn't charged with a crime, yet he is not a free man. How's that 4th amendment feeling these days? If there wasn't a warrant, that's a problem. If there WAS a warrant, signed by a judge mandating Raub go for a psych eval, that could mean his 2A rights are now toast.
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 08:02:41 PM »

Va. judge orders release of detained veteran
A judge on Thursday ordered the release of a former Marine who was detained for psychiatric evaluation after posting strident anti-government messages on Facebook.

Prince George County Circuit Judge W. Allan Sharrett said at the end of a one-hour hearing that the involuntary commitment order issued by a magistrate against Brandon J. Raub was invalid because it contained no allegation or basis to hold him, according to the head of a civil liberties organization that represented the 26-year-old veteran.

"This is a great victory," Rutherford Institute executive director John Whitehead said. "He's a good human being. He just got caught in some weird bureaucratic meanderings and the judge recognized that there's really no true facts to hold this man in a psychiatric ward."

Raub was released from the Salem Veterans Affairs Medical Center late Thursday and was on his way back to his home in the Richmond area, a Rutherford Institute spokeswoman said. Both Raub and his mother, Cathleen Thomas, were unavailable for comment.

Raub, who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, was taken into custody Aug. 16 after being questioned by Chesterfield County police and federal agents about his Facebook posts. The FBI said the interview was prompted by complaints from people who read his ominous posts, including some that spoke of a pending revolution. One said "a day of reckoning" was coming, and another said: "Sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads."

Onlookers shot a video of Raub being led away from his home in handcuffs and posted it on You Tube, fueling a groundswell of support for the veteran and criticism that the government was trampling on his free-speech rights. The Charlottesville-based Rutherford Institute came to his defense, characterizing the government's actions as those of a police state. Raub was not charged with a crime.

"Brandon Raub was arrested with no warning, targeted for doing nothing more than speaking out against the government, detained against his will, and isolated from his family, friends and attorneys," Whitehead said. "These are the kinds of things that take place in totalitarian societies. Today, at least, Judge Allan Sharrett proved that justice can still prevail in America."

He called Raub's release a victory for the First Amendment.

"People a have right to go on Facebook or the Internet (and) say things that people might not agree with, "Whitehead said. "But that doesn't mean they're crazy or should be incarcerated for it."

Raub initially was taken the John Randolph Medical Center in Hopewell, where he was held over the weekend for a preliminary evaluation. After a hearing Monday, another judge ordered Raub detained for an additional month and transferred him to the Salem VA hospital.

Thursday's hearing was expected to be limited to Raub's objection to the transfer, so Whitehead said Sharrett's decision came as a surprise.

"The petition is so devoid of any factual allegations that it could not be reasonably expected to give rise to a case or controversy," the order says.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Va-judge-orders-release-of-detained-veteran-3810234.php#ixzz24QAklgOk
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« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 08:10:44 PM »

A government that does this also wants our guns? No s.it Shirley!
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